Like+Water+for+Chocolate

=**Brief of online chat discussion:**=

We met at 3 PM in the emich chat feature and began discussing scenes we enjoyed. We shared commentary on why the passages worked or challenged us. We thought about the author's connections between emotions and food preparation, as her purpose in life revolved around food. We also focused on the end, and what we found ridiculous or realistic (and "right" and "wrong") about Tita's choices regarding Pedro and John.

=**Transcript of online chat:**=

Jason Scott Elstone: What is the purpose of this discussion anyway? Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I liked the meshing of the genres of recipe/cookbook, and the more 'traditional' fiction Alicia Cara Dubisky: We are supposed to just the novel the way we would at any of our meeting. Alicia Cara Dubisky: meetings. Alicia Cara Dubisky: genre Alicia Cara Dubisky: style Alicia Cara Dubisky: what we enjoyed Jason Scott Elstone: But where's the food? I want food. Kelly Lyn Hart: It was supposed to be more convenient so we could focus on our papers Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I am eating right now Alicia Cara Dubisky: I just had chocolate. Jason Scott Elstone: In trying to be more convenient, it made it more complicated and less convenient Alicia Cara Dubisky: sorry, Jason Jason Scott Elstone: I'm drinking water. Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I also loved how Tita's personal ingredients, like her tears, made the food special. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Back to the text- what was your favorite moment? Alicia Cara Dubisky: I loved the scene where Gertrudis rode off withe the general Kelly Lyn Hart: I thought that was really clever, too, Kristen. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Kristin and I were discussing that at class. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I LOVED how her emotions, especially her tears, had a literal affect on the food she prepared, and how it made the people who ate it react Kelly Lyn Hart: *Kristin Jason Scott Elstone: The tears seemed to add the fantastical realism Alicia Cara Dubisky: The salt and bitterness from the tears found their way into the dishes. Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: My favorite part was at the wedding when everyone got really sick! I thought TIta somewhat got her revenge. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: The general swooping in the naked Gertrudis was awesome! It was written so clearly, that you could actually feel the heat as you read it! Jason Scott Elstone: There were many times that I felt I was right there in the kitchen actually living among the characters. I could really feel for Tita Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: The emotion really draws you in. Kelly Lyn Hart: From chapter one, I felt connected to her character. Alicia Cara Dubisky: I thought the 17(?) eggs might have something to do with the illness. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: What I thought was odd was how Gerrudis was so independent from the family and tradition, but when she visited, expected Tita to prepare her childhood favorite foods. Kelly Lyn Hart: I really sympathized for her, which generated a lot on resentment towards her mother, and hatred toward Pedro. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: HATED Pedro Jason Scott Elstone: I am mad that Tita chose to be with Pedro and not John. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Don't we do that, though, when we visit parents and grandparents, Kelly W? Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Me too Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: That was interesting. She wanted some connection to who she was before she burst into flames and rode off into a different life. Kelly Lyn Hart: He seemed so arrogant Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I hated Pedro too! He didn't deserve all of the chances she kept giving him. Jason Scott Elstone: Ugh, this is so complicated to follow. Alicia Cara Dubisky: I can understand Tita's choice...when you have that one person who you want to be with, you will do absolutely anything to be with them. Alicia Cara Dubisky: In any capacity. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Not when he is messing with my sister Jason Scott Elstone: But isn't there a point when you give up and realize that it's not meant to be? Alicia Cara Dubisky: Not if you have felt the need to rebel since you were young. Kelly Lyn Hart: Agreed Kell! Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Yes, when he has a child with my sister Kelly Lyn Hart: Kelly! Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I agree with you Kelly. Alicia Cara Dubisky: You want to do the "wrong" thing. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Not "you" but some people. Jason Scott Elstone: I think messing with a sibling would be that point. The fact that he was able to get with the sister even when he still liked Tita was a bit creepy. Kinda "once a cheater, always a cheater" concept Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Yes, but leaving and living with John, would be considered wrong as well in her mothers eyes Alicia Cara Dubisky: true, but she wanted to be desired in the way that she desired Pedro. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Did anyone else think it was creepy that her and Pedro had sex in her dead mother's room? Jason Scott Elstone: Anything that Tita did was wrong (or watned to do) in her mothers eyes Alicia Cara Dubisky: John wanted to love her. He didn't come across as the type that could put a stop to her fire or make it spark on its own. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: At least he encouraged her fire Jason Scott Elstone: Was that to spite mother? Alicia Cara Dubisky: I thought the sex in mommy's room was the perfect revenge on her part. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Not sure, but it was weird Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: Her mother was crazy and so cruel. I wouldn't have been able to take it as long as Tita. Alicia Cara Dubisky: She took control of the one place that was her mother's domain in every way. Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I liked that too Alicia. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: But they would 'hide' there. It did not seem like revenge on her mother to me Jason Scott Elstone: a reverse of roles Alicia Cara Dubisky: She couldn't necessarily control everyone in every part of the house at all times. Alicia Cara Dubisky: True Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: If she wanted revenge, I think she would have made their relationship much more open Alicia Cara Dubisky: The revenge wasn't against her sister. Alicia Cara Dubisky: It was against the arrangement her mother made. Jason Scott Elstone: But sometimes the idea of secrecy and what that can do to someone (to only know a bit of truth) can drive someone mad and crazy Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: If she wanted revenge, she could have created it through the food she made Alicia Cara Dubisky: She wouldn't dishonor the kitchen with revenge. Kelly Lyn Hart: THat is what I kept waiting for... Jason Scott Elstone: So mom only knowing a small bit (or having a hunch) could have been much worse because moms mind would be making her go nut Kelly Lyn Hart: I thought she was certainly going to inflict illness through her cooking Alicia Cara Dubisky: But that would degrade her. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Her purpose was to cook. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Why would her sister try to enforce a tradition through her own daughter that caused so much pain and drama when it was experianced through them? Kelly Lyn Hart: That is a good point, Jason. Only know a little bit, but being certain there is more, can bother you more than knowing everything. Jason Scott Elstone: Macbeth syndrome Alicia Cara Dubisky: Her sister wanted power and found a way to exact it. Alicia Cara Dubisky: I think I meant enact Kelly Lyn Hart: I don't understand it, kelly, but I would guess maybe because she feared how society would perceive her if she broke those social expectaions Alicia Cara Dubisky: Don't we all, though? Jason Scott Elstone: Social expectations or cultural? Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Or family? Jason Scott Elstone: ouch Alicia Cara Dubisky: all Jason Scott Elstone: So, did Tita do the right thing? Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: Less of the family as she matured though. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: It seems that the culture was reconstructing itself, and that this family had a difficult time merging with it Alicia Cara Dubisky: We have expectations in our families, in our social interactions, and within our culture. Kelly Lyn Hart: Cultural, but an element of that is social. Jason Scott Elstone: Alicia, are you writing a thesis statement? Alicia Cara Dubisky: I think I am. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Am I doing the parallel writing again? Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: How do you feel about the ending? Jason Scott Elstone: Sounds like a good inquiry paper topic.... Jason Scott Elstone: I forget. Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I ok with ending now Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: Oh, I meant the ending of the book Jason Scott Elstone: Kristin, haha you want out don't you? Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I mean the ending. At first I hated it and was like what the heck, but then I began to like the more I thought about it Alicia Cara Dubisky: I liked the book, but I thought her choice was foolish so I was happy to see the pair go...along with everything that once meant stability and tradition. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: At first I was not happy that the wedding was between the individuals that it was, but on second thought it did make sense. I did not like though that she had to leave her physical space in order to 'finally' experiance true love Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I do not think that Pedro deserved her physical and mental admiration and love Jason Scott Elstone: It's about new experiences... Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: His jealously made me ANGRY! He had zero right to comment on any decision she made in the quest for her happiness. Jason Scott Elstone: Tita was not the same person once she moved on with her life was she? Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: He was the cause of so much pain in her live Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: I thought Tita made the wrong choice to be with Pedro, so I couldn't be happy with her decision to choose to be with him. Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: oops, i mean life Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I agree Kristen, it was not the right choice Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: and how about how she had to artifically start the fire, by 'eating ' the matches to reconnect to that place to be with him?' Kelly Lyn Hart: I didn't want to see Pedro be fortunate enough to have her, so although she may have been happy, I would have liked to see karma come back to Pedro in the end Kelly Katherine Waldschmidt: I know that she initially chose not to follow the light, but... Jason Scott Elstone: But yet, staying with Pedro maintained some semblence of tradition. She could have married outside the culture... Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: Ok, I have to go now. Are we chatting again, or is this the last time? Alicia Cara Dubisky: True, Jason. Alicia Cara Dubisky: But it would have been her choice to go. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Not her mother's. Jason Scott Elstone: true Alicia Cara Dubisky: I think this is the last chat. Kelly Lyn Hart: Are we still posting our sections on the wiki? Alicia Cara Dubisky: Let me make sure I get a copy of the text before you log out. Jason Scott Elstone: So obviously, we can see that some sense of the tradition is important to Tita if she married the jerk to stay within some boundry. Jason Scott Elstone: Okay, time to go then? Kristin Elizabeth Grahek: Ok, I will post my author info on the Wiki. Good luck with your papers guys. Alicia Cara Dubisky: got it. Jason Scott Elstone: thanks. I still have to work on mine Alicia Cara Dubisky: I will send a link to Staunton so that we are all set. Jason Scott Elstone: Have a great weekend everyone! Alicia Cara Dubisky: I will also make sure to put a short brief with a transcript of the conversation. Alicia Cara Dubisky: Have a great one!

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I am attempting to start our discussion and creating a new page. Being that I am not too familiar with structuring it, I am testing it to see if I did it right.

Okay, for some reason my computer is not letting me view the discussion page. I finished the book this morning and wanted to post...when are we all going to sign on to discuss? -Jason